photographic art by Kevin Scofield
T   H   I   R   D    W   I   T   N   E   S   S
Continued from Part One

This transcript is from one session that elicited momories of a life in the future-- a future where humanity has left the polluted planet to live in space colonies.

This is the second of two parts. We ask that you keep an open mind and remember that these responses were unrehearsed and unexpected. The patient, here identified only as "ep," describes his life and environment in vivid detail. It is this detail that lends credence to his chilling view of what lies ahead for humanity, both on and off the planet.

A complete copy of this transcript are available from "AMAZON.COM".


Excerpt from THIRD WITNESS: The Alan Arthur Winston Hypnotherapy Sessions with Edward Peterson

Copyright 1999 Joseph Robert Cowles. All Rights Reserved.

* * *

aaw: Pollutants from the--?

eb: From the rebreathers. It doesn't take out all the gasses, the expelled gasses.

aaw: Go back again to that rock shielding.

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: Does it eventually absorb, and hold on to or become radioactive?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: And then does it have to be replaced?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: So it's a kind of an--

ep: See, you do understand.

aaw: --ongoing project?

ep: Yeah. Lasts about thirty or forty years. And then it starts to break up too from stress. And then you gotta redo the epoxy. So generally, you just about get one done and pretty much you gotta start all over again. That's a real good job, too.

aaw: And there's a total of how many out there?

ep: Out where?

aaw: The L stations.

ep: They usually run about twenty-five to thirty-five thousand, I guess.

aaw: Twenty-five to thirty-five thousand what?

ep: People.

aaw: Per station?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: They've got to be huge!

eb: Um-hmm. They are, I guess. What's big? Define big.

aaw: Huge. Huge!

ep: Seems like the right size.

aaw: (Laughs.) Twenty-six what--?

ep: Twenty-six point six.

aaw: Miles?

ep: Miles.

aaw: You guys use miles up here, huh?

ep: On the station.

aaw: Now--entertainment. What do you do for entertainment?

ep: What d'you mean?

aaw: Well, what do you do when you're not--how do you recreate?

ep: I watch movies, I like to read, I like to listen to music, I play music, I like to write, I like to sing, I like to fly. Sometimes I like to go sit and just meditate and relax. Sometimes that's my favorite.

aaw: Can you go places off the moon?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: Do you have a personal transportation vehicle?

ep: Personal? What d'you mean?

aaw: Something that you get to say when it leaves and when it doesn't leave--.

ep: You mean, like a possession?

aaw: Yes. Or do you have to shut--

ep: Possession. That doesn't--that doesn't fit no more.

aaw: --do you have to shuttle?

ep: Yeah, you shuttle from the L's.

aaw: Are there regular--?

ep: Yeah, sure. There's shuttles all the time everywhere. But they're not your shuttle. They're just shuttles. What would you want one for?

aaw: Well, what if you wanted to zip around the moon, to visit some places?

ep: Then I'd go tell Mark. I'd say, "Hey, man, I want to go for a ride. You got one open?" And he'd say yeah or no.

aaw: What would he have? What kind of vehicle would it be?

ep: They're just little shuttles. I don't know what you mean.

aaw: Do they fly? Do they travel across the surface of the--.

ep: Do they fly? Oh! Yeah, sure. That's--yeah.

aaw: And then they can land?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: Is the whole moon pretty well explored now?

ep: I see what you mean. They--we call 'em pop-ups.

aaw: Pop-ups?

ep: Yeah. You pop up five-six-seven hundred feet, about in there.

aaw: Yes?

ep: And then there's--you just ratchet the stick forward and the rocket will blast forward, and once you're set in motion, then every forty-fifty seconds you give it just a little bump--pssst--and it'll keep you up. Pretty much then it's like you fall around the curvature of the moon.

aaw: Hmm. So are there places that are interesting to go on the moon?

ep: Feature-wise, sure.

aaw: Other than the fact that it's all gray.

ep: It's all pretty damn gray.

aaw: What about some of those great big open--?

ep: Craters? [Undecipherable.] They're interesting, but they're flat. Flat's interesting for so long.

aaw: Do people live in the--are there people who live away from the basic work area, work settlement, or prospectors, or--?

ep: There's people who go out and around, but they use bigger crawlers and stuff, and that's a pretty tough thing to do. You're takin' a lot of risks there. Can't always-- you could get caught out in a burst, you pop a tread or something. You don't know what's going to happen.

aaw: Are the sunbursts more frequent than they used to be in the past?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: Is there a reason for that?

ep: Well, sure. I don't know what it is, particularly. (Laughs.)

aaw: Yes. Okay. But is there a known reason?

ep: No. I don't know if it's more frequent. Maybe we're just more susceptible, or something.

aaw: Do you get broadcasts from down on the planet, down on Earth?

ep: The world?

aaw: The world.

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: You call it the world?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: You don't call it Earth?

ep: Not really.

aaw: You refer to it as the world?

ep: Yeah. We call it earthrise but it's the world.

aaw: The world. So--are there broadcasts, programs?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: Video? Do you have video?

ep: Videos.

aaw: Videos. Yes. Do you have screens--video screens--for your broadcasts?

ep: Well, sure. Just like--screens. I'm not sure what you're asking me.

aaw: I'm not sure how to put it. So you have view screens?

ep: Yeah.

aaw: With programs?

ep: Some of 'em have programs in 'em, but mostly you gotta take a keyway or a box and program it yourself, whatever you want. You clip it right in there, and then it shows you whatever is on that box.

aaw: Describe that. What does that look like?

ep: The box or the screen?

aaw: The box. I can pretty well visualize the screen.

ep: The box. The boxes are an inch by four or five inches by about two inches. And they have all the information in 'em. Whatever it is that you want. And you set it on the side of the screen, there's these hooks, and you just hook it there. And then it translates the information onto the screen.

aaw: So it's like a recording.

ep: Recording? Hmm.

aaw: A record. It's not happening live, it's information that's stored in the box.

ep: Yeah. It's stored.

aaw: Okay. Now what about live things, like broadcasts, news?--

ep: We don't really care what goes on down there. aaw: Oh! Okay.

ep: I mean, it's there, but it's all just--I don't know. I don't watch it. I don't care. It's on.

aaw: Do you people in space consider yourselves to be a different society?

ep: Well, we are.

aaw: A different--?

ep: We interact. [Undecipherable.] We perform.

aaw: Do people still come up from the planet?

ep: Sometimes.

aaw: Do they need permission to come up?

ep: Oh, yeah.

aaw: They have to apply, like immigrants?

ep: Apply? Apply. No. they have to be screened and coded and checked.

aaw: How do they get screened?

ep: They gotta be scanned.

aaw: You mean physically?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: What are they looking for?

ep: Any kind of devices, any kind of congenital anomalies, any hidden stuff in the digestive tracts or anything like that. Can't let anybody go up that has weak hearts, weak lungs, aneurysms, thin blood vessels, any kind of thing that would pop 'em open, you know. Pressure changes, compression from takeoff.

aaw: So the people up there--up here, up where you are--are pretty healthy then?

ep: By whose standards?

aaw: Well, generally speaking.

ep: Yes.

aaw: Do they--?

ep: People from Earth have all kinds of diseases and stuff. The world is filled with problems.

aaw: Yes.

ep: We try to screen all that out. We don't let dirty people come up.

aaw: What kinds of health problems would you be likely to have--say yourself, or someone who was born up here and lives up here and--?

ep: Biggest thing is problems with enlarged hearts and our lungs. Sometimes we get eye problems. 'Cause our eyes superincede.

aaw: Your eyes what?

ep: From the pressure. They enlarge. You know, pressure changes. And that can mess you up sometimes.

aaw: Is that becoming something where babies are born with enlarged eyes, now?

ep: Um-hmm. You can always tell a Worlder.

aaw: Is it like an evolution? Is it like they've evolved?

ep: Evolution? No. It's adaption.

aaw: Okay. Have babies--are they born with stronger lungs and--

ep: Oh. I know what you're asking.

aaw: --bigger hearts, and--

ep: Not stronger, necessarily, but--

aaw: You see what I'm getting at.

ep: Yeah. I think in general it's like this: we're taller, we're thinner, we're much more flexible. I think that we're much more sensitive to changes in the environment about us. But we live in a very controlled environment usually, so very minor fluctuations are really, really obvious. You pop a couple o' degrees one way or the other Celsius and you can really feel that. I think that's why I like flying. It's 'cause I could feel breeze and air. And I read all about how breezes blow. But the only time I ever feel that is when I'm by somethin' that goes by me maybe or--.

aaw: Fans, maybe.

ep: Yeah. Pushers.

aaw: What's a pusher?

ep: Fans. Pushers. They push the air.

aaw: What about plants? Trees?

ep: Where?

aaw: Where you are.

ep: On the surface, or at the L5?

aaw: At the L.

ep: The L has everything.

aaw: Animals?

ep: Sometimes. By the farms they got animals. But you can't have pets. That's a waste of space and air and food. If it grows, it feeds.

aaw: Do they eat lots of meat, or some meat, or no meat?

ep: Mostly chickens.

aaw: Chicken. Because--?

ep: Because they're easy to grow.

aaw: Easy to grow.

ep: I do like processed stuff, you'd call it now.

aaw: What about things like cholesterol?

ep: It's all taken care of in our diet. We don't worry about anything like that. It's already controlled. We only eat what we eat. aaw: Who gets to control it? Who says? Who chooses?

ep: That's an interesting question. I just think that that's the way it is. That's how certain stuff works.

aaw: What about government? Is there government?

ep: There's councils. Is that government?

aaw: Yes. What do they do?

ep: Well, they kinda oversee stuff, they modify stuff. If things aren't workin' out, they kinda omni-budsmen between disputers. Just make sure everything's functioning smoothly, make sure everybody's doin' their work. Government--that's kind of a nasty term now-days. Government implies controls and restrictions. I mean, if you're too stupid not to wear your safety helmet, then a law isn't gonna protect you. 'Cause eventually you won't wear your safety helmet, then you'll die. Then that's that.

aaw: Okay. Al, I want you now to scan forward in your life, and tell me if you make it to Mars.

ep: Nope.

aaw: What happens?

ep: Just don't go.

aaw: You change your mind?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: What were the things that had you change your mind?

ep: My kids.

aaw: You got married?

ep: Uhn-uh.

aaw: No? You had kids, though?

ep: Oh, yeah.

aaw: Did you have a contract with someone to have kids?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: Tell me how that works.

ep: I just contracted with Maria. Moved in together and we had kids, but we didn't get married.

aaw: Are you still together?

ep: When?

aaw: I mean, did you stay together?

ep: Uhn-uh. We just had kids.

aaw: Who then cared for the kids?

ep: What d'you mean, cared for?

aaw: Well--.

ep: Everybody. Everybody cares for the kids.

aaw: You mean all--? Explain that.

ep: Maybe like this: It's not my kids. They're our kids.

aaw: You mean they're the kids of the community?

ep: Yeah. They're kids.

aaw: Do you have money?

ep: Nah. What for?

aaw: What about, is there any, does anyone try to mine precious jewels, or--?

ep: What's a precious jewel?

aaw: --diamonds? Gold? Minerals?

ep: Oh, I see. Like the doo-dads. I guess so. I don't think you got it quite right up here. That stuff don't matter. There's no wanting, so if you have everything you want, what do you want extra stuff for? Oh--I guess that's not fair, 'cause I covet my books.

aaw: I was going to ask you about those books. Yes, you--.

ep: Y'see, that's--I don't use my books like a profit lever.

aaw: Like a what?

ep: Like a profit lever. I'm not--they're just a thing that brings me pleasure. What's wrong with that?

aaw: So would you say that in your society everybody's pretty well considered equal?

ep: Sure. We all take turns.

aaw: What about--

ep: I'll be on the council again in a couple of years.

aaw: On the what, the council?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: What about--are there any prejudices?

ep: Prejudices?

aaw: You know, do you have--?

ep: Oh. Yeah. We don't like them Worlders. They're short, and they stink, and they bring diseases with 'em, and they ask a lot of weird stuff like you do.

aaw: (Laughs.) Thanks.

ep: What?

aaw: Just remember, I might be your great-great-great-grandfather.

ep: Oh. (Laughs.) You couldn't be, you're white.

aaw: What color are you?

ep: I'm brown.

aaw: Because--?

ep: 'Cause we're all brown.

aaw: Everybody's brown?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: How did that come about? All the same shade of brown, or different colors of brown--?

ep: Pretty much.

aaw: Yes? Well--describe your hair.

ep: My hair is short. I keep it back a lot, I guess. I trim it. I don't like it, 'cause it's in the helmet. So I keep it real trimmed shortened back.

aaw: Does most everybody keep it the same way?

ep: Um-hmm. Hair's kind of a pain in the ass.

aaw: What color?

ep: It's black.

aaw: So--no prejudice, except for the--well how then do you treat people whom you allow in, that you allow up from--?

ep: Anybody comes in from the world's goin' somewhere.

aaw: You mean passing through?

ep: Yeah.

aaw: Going to--?

ep: Some science station. Or they're gonna go on some mission or somethin' and they're all thinking they're pretty damn cool.

aaw: Are they?

ep: No. Generally they don't get it, they don't understand. They're all too concerned about stuff, about the stuff that don't matter.

aaw: So what becomes of them? Do they become assimilated? Do they eventually get it?

ep: No, I don't think so.

aaw: Do their kids get it?

ep: If you're from the world and you go to space and then you gotta [undecipherable] to go back to the world, or your bones will atrophy, and your eyes will bug out, and your anal gland will quit workin' and your ass'll tighten up. And then that's that.

aaw: And then you can't go back.

ep: No--then you die. (Laughs.) I guess that's goin' back.

aaw: Everybody who lives in space has enlarged eyes?

ep: I guess so. Gee, that's a relative question, isn't it?

aaw: Well, enlarged compared to the way your great- great-great-grandfather--?

ep: Yeah. The pictures don't look the same.

aaw: How much enlarged are they?

ep: It's not like they're enlarged. It's like they're more forward. Cranial sockets are pretty much the same, but the gelatinous mass has reformed a little. The eye is more forward. I believe that we have much more peripheral vision than the Worlders do. And we're also much more sensitive to light shifts into the blue spectrum.

aaw: So you're really saying in effect that you've evolved into almost a different species.

ep: No, uhn-uh. I would call that heresy.

aaw: Are you still Homo sapiens?

ep: We're not so hot on those guys, either. (Laughs.) I don't know if I know what you mean by Homo sapiens.

aaw: That's what they used to call human beings.

ep: Oh. Well, we're still human beings.

aaw: But a different breed.

ep: Hmm.

aaw: You could see yourselves as--

ep: We're L people.

aaw: --the pioneers.

ep: Gramp was the pioneer.

aaw: Yes? Tell me about Grandpa. What was Grandpa's story?

ep: He was up on the moon, and he was one of the first people to start in on the L's. He was one of the original constructors. And that was that.

aaw: And that's what he did with his life?

ep: Um-hmm. He believed. He was a believer.

aaw: Did he start out young, did he come up young? Where was he born?

ep: He was from the world.

aaw: So he believed and he decided--?

ep: He was a believer. He believed that everything was going to be out there, and that's the way he looked at it, that's the way he wrote about it.

aaw: Was he an author?

ep: No, his name was Timothy.

aaw: Timothy?

ep: Oh, you mean author. Book. (Laughs.) No. He used to write journals and letters. Sometimes articles. Used to publish in magazines, they called 'em.

aaw: So he came into space and stayed?

ep: Um-hmm. And died.

aaw: And died. But in those days, they weren't screening people.

ep: Everybody came from the world then.

aaw: When did they start screening people?

ep: About eleven hundred.

aaw: What does that date signify?

ep: Date?

aaw: Eleven hundred. What does that mean?

ep: Eleven hundred is the mission number.

aaw: Okay. By that time, by that mission number--. Well, time must be kind of relative to you guys too. Dates and things--.

ep: 'S not like dates. 'S like passages. Call 'em weeks, but it's a two hundred forty hour block.

aaw: That's the equivalent of ten Earth days.

ep: Ten revolutions, you mean

. aaw: Yes.

ep: Not days. Revolutions.

aaw: Your revolutions around the Earth. But you're geosynchronous. Let me figure how that works. The Earth revolves, and you revolve--?

ep: It doesn't really revolve. It's just always right there.

aaw: Yes. Geosynchronous. Can you look down on the Earth with telescopes, see the cities?

ep: Sure. 'Cept, the bands are to the inside of the wheel, so it depends on our aspect. But if we're aspected right, then you can see the Earth. 'Course you can go places and look. There's ways to look. But once you're on the L5 the aspect has to be right. But generally we're pointed away from the sun, to put the rim up, so you really look out at the other inside rim. That's why it's special to see the world rise, to see the earthrise.

aaw: Because you normally don't?

ep: Right.

aaw: Go back to the moon, where you are in the wherever it is with the gray window that you are lifting up to look at the earthrise, and you have six people--including yourself? --on your team--

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: --and you're three weeks on, one week off, three weeks on, one week off--for how long?

ep: What do you mean?

aaw: Do you work for, say, nine months, and then take a vacation every--?

ep: What's a vacation?

aaw: Oh. Okay. Why do you bother to take the week off?

ep: 'Cause you gotta get your head right, you know. You get down in them tunnels and shit, and after awhile you get kinda foggy. Doin' the same old shit. Gotta have value to life. Only way you can have that is to have personal time.

aaw: Okay. Let's do one more thing--.

ep: I just thought of something.

aaw: Okay.

ep: We use personal time like you were talking about money.

aaw: How's that?

ep: I can trade my P-time to somebody, or they can trade it to me. And we do that sometimes. So I might work longer, and then take longer, 'specially during an asteroid or meteor shower. I really like those. I like to get a little time off and go watch 'em. Y'see, that's all real easy. That's all real, uh--everybody understands or something. Eddie, he likes to go watch the solar flares. So sometimes when we know there's a big flare coming, I'll just work a couple extra days and let him take some of my P-time. Then he'll go up to the observatory and watch for a couple o' days, 'cause he really digs that.

aaw: Who's Eddie?

ep: Eddie's one o' the guys that work for me.

aaw: How old do you get to be in this life?

ep: About a hundred and fiftyish or so. Depends on how many rads you take.

aaw: A hundred and fifty years?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: But you don't have to work all those years.

ep: Why wouldn't you?

aaw: I mean, at something like driving a--.

ep: Have to? I don't understand have to--.

aaw: Oh well, okay.

ep: Why wouldn't you? It's what you do, you're--don't you stay interested in things?

aaw: Okay. How long would you work at what you're doing?

ep: Till I got bored with it.

aaw: And then?

ep: I would go do something else. Whatever I could do, whatever I wanted to do.

aaw: Do they have constant training programs? If you wanted to go do something that you hadn't done before--?

ep: Well, Eddie--eventually he's gonna want to go up and be in the observatory all the time, so pretty soon, maybe another five, ten years, he'll quit diggin' and he'll go be in the observatory. And he'll do that until he gets sick of it and moves on to somethin' else.

aaw: So you personally live, will live, have lived, are living--your personal life span is about one hundred fifty years?

ep: Um-hmm.

aaw: How do you die?

ep: I die in a big explosion.

aaw: What's the cause of the explosion?

ep: Oxygen.

aaw: Was it an accident?

ep: Not really. I was blowin' a tube out, and I wanted to get them out safely, and the only way to do it was to go back and knock the cannisters down and I knew that that would be that, but they would all be safe, so I went and did it.

aaw: Who were you getting out?

ep: The crew.

aaw: What kind of crew was this?

ep: The asteroid crew.

aaw: Tell me about the asteroid crew.

ep: We're on the asteroid and we're gettin' water, and we're comin' back around and there's a big sunburst, and it takes off and all the seals go crystalline up at the launch point, and everything breaks down. We don't have any more protection. And I can't get the rockets to spin the asteroid. I can't make the stuff fire, because the seal's broken down and I can't get in there, so I figure the only way to blast 'em off is to load everybody in there at the pad, and then I seal off the back room--I open the front doors to the pad and then I seal off the back room--and uncork all the oxygen containers. I wait, and I wait until the pressure gets up to about 7500, and then I knock off the final valve, and it blows it up, and it shot 'em out. And I hope that they make it.

aaw: And you--?

ep: Me what?

aaw: What happened to you?

ep: Oh, I'm dead.

aaw: Did you burn? Did you asphyx--

ep: No. More like ka-boom!

aaw: An explosion.

ep: Yeah. My atoms separate. Boom. Totally painless.

aaw: And you. Where do you go from there? After the atoms in your body separated. Where does your essence--?

ep: (Laughs.) Probably about ten thousand miles per hour directly in the opposite direction. (Laughs.) Pretty much.

aaw: Okay. Looking back over this life--.

ep: (Chuckles.) You ask some silly questions sometimes. Where do I go? Directly the opposite way.

aaw: (Laughs.) I mean your essence, I don't mean your body. Looking back over this life experience, what regrets--?

ep: I don't know. Regrets? I'm not sure I understand that.

aaw: Okay, let's give you the opposite question, then. What wouldn't you have missed?

ep: Everything!

aaw: What were the highlights, the things that gave you the most pleasure, the most joy, the most contentment?

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